Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2

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MvM: Know Thy Class
By Mr. Underscore
EIDT (2021): This is an old guide, written when I was just a baby MvM player and dumb college kid. A lot of the advice probably still holds up today, but I highly recommend checking out my ongoing YouTube series instead:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLclGQO6uo2sirs8V0cTNB7hbwsPdTVuO2

One of the biggest hurdles to becoming an effective Mann vs. Machine player is learning the mechanics of the game. This is especially true about how the various classes function. Hard to kill robots if you don't even know what your own weapons do, right? You'd think this would be easy, given the fact that they're basically an exaggerated version of the PvP mechanics. But, if you ask your average MvM "expert," they'll probably tell you that Rocket Specialist is an essential upgrade, Pyro is only good against tanks (or even what classes are good against tanks to begin with), Sniper is best against giants, Heavy is the most powerful class, etc.

You can go on believing those things if you want, or you could learn to play the game.
   
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Foreword
The loadout pictures included in each section are just for visuals. They not meant to be a suggestion on class loadout. That is not what this guide is about. If it was, the Scout loadout probably wouldn't include Mad Milk and the Pyro one wouldn't include Homewrecker, for starters.

I'm not telling you to use these weapons (although they'd be a good place to start). They're just there to make the guide look pretty,
How It Works: Scout

Scout does bullet damage that ramps up a lot at close range and suffers a lot of spread at long range. He has access to Projectile Penetration that helps a lot against tightly massed robots, but he's essentially a single-target damage dealer. He's also one of the more difficult classes when it comes to aiming due to his high move speed.

This means that, compared to other classes he excels at close range against lone targets, especially if they're slow-moving and have big hitboxes. Think giants and tanks. In fact, since Scout is rather flimsy and needs to move around a lot in combat, reducing the quality of the meatshots he lands, he is THE class that operates most efficiently against tanks, with the added bonus that his money-grabbing field keeps tank money from scattering to kingdom come when the tank explodes.

He's kind of like a fast Heavy that does less damage but suffers no disadvantage against tanks. Moreover, he does damage in bursts, not streams, making it much easier for him to drop Uber Medics and Giant Medics without popping them.

Defensively, Scout's main assets are his mobility and the healing he gets from money. Unlike most classes, he can easily tank damage without Health on Kill because he gets health from EVERY robot death, not just his own kills.

Also, do not underestimate Scout's "instant" respawn. It is a huge advantage over other classes when things get hairy.

Don't F*** It Up
Bonus money never made a bad team or broke a good team. Stop trying to hunt down that random 5 credits in some random corner of the map and make yourself useful! 6 players with a B is easier than 5 players with an A+. Also, don't spam Fan-O-War like an idiot.
How It Works: Soldier


Soldier is probably the most well-rounded class in the game. He's mobile, he does a lot of damage, he's good at killing tanks and giants as well as small stuff, he's good at close range but decent at medium or even longe range, he can drop Uber and Giant Medics with reasonable consistency, etc. He has some soft counters in the form of Deflector Heavies and Pyros, but there's really nothing he can't do.

With that being said, Soldier is a class that relies heavily on splash damage. Soldier is much more efficient shooting at massed targets than at solo targets. This means that, while he's decent at killing tanks and giants, he's much better at vaporizing a clustered mob of Heavy bots.

Don't F*** It Up
You're not the Heavy's personal Buff Banner. When you see a group of tightly clustered robots incoming, it's not your job to 'help the Heavy' kill them. You should be able to do the whole thing yourself!
How It Works: Pyro


Like Soldier, Pyro is a well-rounded, high-damage class, with the difference that Pyro exchanges ranged ability for a little more raw power. Also like Soldier, Pyro has the ability to hit many robots at once and the more robots burning at once, the better. Finally, Pyro requires relatively few upgrades to reach maximum damage output and is a great choice for massive early-game damage for those who know how to use him (or her) properly.

Pyro is good at killing tanks, but mostly because they don't fight back and take all of the high-damage fire without protest. Pyro is not the best tank killer without the Phlogistinator.

Due to the need to get in close to do damage, Pyro relies more on ambush than most other classes. As a stream-damage class, Pyro is less suitable for taking down Medics but can still get the job done with the free crits from the Phlog or the Backburner.

Don't F*** It Up
Don't waste money upgrading airblast. Airblast is a gimmicky ability that works in the more strategically-oriented PvP mode. MvM is about raw damage output. Get in there and burn things! And stop saying about how you "saved the day" with airblast. Airblast is a self-justifying gimmick. It can potentially save you from really bad situations, so a lot of people love it. However, those situations are much less likely to occur in the first place if you don't waste a player slot on an Airblast Pyro.
How It Works: Demo


Due to his ability to deal damage in large bursts, a lot of people are enamored of Demo as some sort of great giant-killer. Sure, if he has the time to set up sticky traps on the easy, slow-paced waves found in Mannhattan, but that is not his specialty. Sticky Demo has a relatively slow average fire rate, and is most efficient at hitting massed targets with splash damage. Like Soldier and Pyro. Except Soldier and Pyro have higher sustained damage over time and are better giant killers. The difference is pretty telling when you have a high-health boss that Demo can't off with one set of crit stickies. Sticky Demo will be handily outdamaged by Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Heavy, Engie, Spy, and possibly Sniper, depending on how many upgrades and how much skill he has. For the exact same reason, Demo is NOT really good against tanks like a lot of people seem to think. His average sustained single-target DPS over time is terrible. However, Heavy, Spy, and Sniper all suffer huge nerfs against tanks, so Demo is able to claim mediocrity, unlike against bosses.

Fun Fact: According to the Stickybomb Launcher statistics found on the TF2 Wiki, Demo should be the best class against tanks. Play Wave 3 of Normal Decoy in Buddha mode with infinite money and see just how wrong that is.

Demo is relatively powerful even with little-to-no upgrades, making him a powerful class choice for teams that struggle with early waves, especially when using the Scottish Resistance.

Demo's ability to deal damage from around corners and over walls can be quite handy. Additionally, his ability to deal damage in sudden bursts and accessibility to beginners make him the most popular choice for dropping Uber Medics and Giant Medics.

Grenadeknight and Demoknight are different and function more like Soldier and some sort of Scout/Spy hybrid, respectively.

Don't F*** It Up
You know those bosses at the end of the Mecha Engine missions and in some of the Two Cities missions? Yeah, stickies aren't too good at killing those. Far too much health. You need sustained DPS for that s***. Demo can be OKAY, but it's hilarious how many times I've seen people switch TO Demo from a more suitable class because they're enamored by the initial burst of damage they can do with a sticky trap.
How It Works: Heavy


Heavy is probably the simplest class to play, so a lot of new players assume he's the most powerful when they're first learning the game and often keep that assumption upon becoming "experts."

Like Scout, Heavy is a high-damage class that can basically only hit one enemy at a time except for what's allowed by the Projectile Penetration upgrade. In comparison to Scout, Heavy trades mobility for extra damage. In addition, Heavy is like Pyro, Demo, and Engie in that he start off with a large portion of his maximum DPS from the get-go.

Heavy is best at killing giants, especially at point blank range. As such, he would have been absolutely overpowered against tanks, but he's given a 75% damage nerf against tanks, reducing him to the "mediocre" category. Since many players see Heavy as some sort of superclass, they often rely too much on him for damage and run into problems. Dealing damage to one enemy at a time, Heavy is not good against hordes and will get wrecked by, say, a battalion of crit Heavies.

Heavy is not very mobile and chews through ammo like nuts. As such, he is not the most autonomous class, often relying on an Engineer, Medic, or Scout to some extent for ammo and healing. As a stream damage class, he can't drop Uber Medics and can only drop Giant Medics with crits or at point blank range.

Heavy is possibly the best all-around class for killing bosses due to his high sustained damage output against them and ability to body-block.

Don't F*** It Up
Avoid learning to play Heavy with a Medic up your butt. It teaches bad habits.
How It Works: Engie


Engineer is a unique class. He deals (and takes) damage mostly through his Sentry, which has massive health and is immune to crits. Additionally, it draws robot aggro away from squishy players. However, it's not actually that strong compared the damage that can be output by other classes. There are 2 reasons why Engineer is included on most teams, in addition to taking pressure off of teammates with the Sentry:

1. Ammo and Teleporter support makes everything easier.
2. Engineer is relatively powerful early-game.

An unupgraded Engineer starts the game with about two-thirds his maximum damage potential, making him a nice crutch for weak teams to get past early waves. However, Engineer also doesn't get much stronger with upgrades.

Sentry guns put out a stream of damage less powerful than a Heavy's at close range but more powerful at long range. The splash damage afforded by the rockets is negligible, and Sentries cannot be upgraded for penetration. Thus, Engineer has a much lower damage ceiling than most other classes. Engineer is relatively good at tanking giants with his Sentry. Noobs tend to assume the ease with which the Sentry can be kept firing constantly at lower difficulties equates to Engineer being good for dealing with crowds, but this is not the case: Engie is probably better as a giant killer. Engineer's maximum damage potential is probably somewhere between that of Spy and Scout and those of the real "damage" classes. Probably closer the the former. Like Spy and Scout, Engie brings something to the table other than just damage output.

Due to the lack of damage and the redundancy of multiple Teleporters and Dispensers, having multiple Engineers is generally not a "tryhard" strategy except for players who aren't very good at aiming and would be well served to have an aimbotting Sentry play the game for them.

Don't F*** It Up
Don't put a tele exit somewhere you anticipate being behind enemy lines 5 seconds into the wave.
How It Works: Medic


As a support class, Medic has more synergy with certain classes than others. Demo, Heavy, Spy, and possibly even Pyro are all good choices for pockets. The function of Medic in each of these situations is to:

1. Boost Demo's already massive bursts of damage.
2. Let a Heavy get in close and bully robots with abandon.
3. Draw aggro away from Spy via your healing beam so that Spy can crush giants without retaliation.

Be warned that Medic requires more coordination with other players than other classes.

Also, Medic can also be played as a Damage class via shield-bashing and even syringes. Not an expert on it, but the shield can deal damage to multiple things at once. Not so with the syringes. You know what? Go learn to play a real class first.

You cannot be a good support Medic until you've mastered EVERY OTHER CLASS. The end. A Medic cannot effectively help his team without understanding the mechanics behind the classes he's charging.

Don't F*** It Up
Don't play Medic on a team of bad players. You wouldn't pocket a Gibusvision Trolldier in PvP, would you?
How It Works: Sniper


Many people say that Sniper is good at killing giants. That is not quite true. Giants are among the easiest robots to headshot, but Sniper is another class that is most efficient at killing massed targets. He doesn't gain the ability to kill giants efficiently until he has quite a few upgrades. It would be more accurate to say he is good against large clusters of robots that happen to be standing near a giant.

While a Sniper's power is almost limitless in the hands of a skilled player, it can basically be said that Sniper is best when slower enemies are on the map, namely Giants and Heavies. As long as a Sniper is able to headshot one robot out of the bunch, everything in the area will take massive Explosive Headshot damage.

Since Sniper relies on headshots to do damage, Sniper is very inefficient against things that do not have heads, a.k.a. tanks.

Sniper has the advantage of being able to automatically collect the money dropped by most of his kills, an ability which can be quite helpful.

Don't F*** It Up
Only take the time to throw Jarate at giants or fast-moving things you can't hit yourself. Don't waste money upgrading it except for MAYBE slowdown.
How It Works: Spy


Spy is prioritized as a target by nearby robots; a backstab will send them into rape-whistle mode. Thus, a Spy only has time to get a few stabs in before needing to retreat and redisguise. He needs to make those stabs count.

Spy's backstabs will do up to 937.5 damage against giants. Against non-giants, they'll optimistically do 125-250 damage, assuming the target is at full health. Which do you think is more efficient?

Putting 800 credits into Armor Penetration triples your DPS against giants. Putting 800 credits into knife Swing Speed less than doubles your DPS. Which upgrade do you think you should get first?

Your knife can take down giants in the blink of an eye. Your sapper can mildly handicap a giant for a short time or temporarily disable a cluster of robots that a friendly Soldier could've obliterated with two rockets. And it needs to constantly recharge. Which do you think is more important to upgrade?

Don't F*** It Up
"Slowing the robots down" is not useful enough to justify a whole player slot for it. Put your Sapper away and backstab things.
BONUS! How It Works: Tanks
In TF2, classes are balanced taking many things into account other than just raw damage: mobility, difficulty, etc. However, tanks are not other players, so not all classes are created equal when it comes to killing them.

For example, tanks
  • have a lot of health
  • do not fight back
  • are featureless boxes
  • did I mention they have a lot of health?

This means that the best classes for killing tanks are the ones that, in normal gameplay
  • have high single-target DPS
  • are rewarded for getting in close to their enemies
  • do not rely on special mechanics like headshots to deal critical damage
  • can sustain their DPS over time, rather than just giving out bursts

Let's take a look at how the different classes stack up.

Scout: Definitely gets rewarded for getting in close. Scout is a relatively difficult class to aim as, but that is irrelevant here. Scout is good at killing tanks. Turns out, no class can outdamage a fully upgraded Scout against tanks without using crits.*

Soldier: The most well-rounded class in the game. Soldier is good at killing tanks.*

Pyro: Definitely gets rewarded for getting in close and has very high damage output. The fact that Pyro can't upgrade his DPS as much as most other classes can takes away the second advantage after the first wave or two, but Pyro is still good at killing tanks.*

Sticky Demo: High-damage, but excels at doing damage to clustered targets in bursts, rather than sustained DPS against a single enemy. Sticky Demo is mediocre at killing tanks.

Grenade Demo: More like Soldier. The fact that he needs to aim more is largely irrelevant. Grenade Demo is good against tanks.

Demoknight: Definitely gets rewarded for getting in close, and is geared toward killing one target at a time. Demoknight is good against tanks.

Heavy: Definitely gets rewarded for getting in close, and has even higher DPS than Scout. However, this would make him insanely overpowered against tanks, so Heavy has two disadvantages: tanks are highly resistant to miniguns, and Heavy's DPS cannot be upgraded as much as for most other classes. Heavy is mediocre against tanks.

Engineer: Sentries are the epitome of high, sustained DPS. However, Engie also suffers the disadvantage that his DPS cannot be upgraded as much as with most other classes. Engineer is fairly good against tanks, especially early on in the mission.

Medic: Medic is the least damage-capable of all the classes. Medic is bad against tanks.

Sniper: Tanks do not have heads, so Sniper is very inefficient against them. However, at the end of his long upgrade path, he will still catch up to Demo and Heavy. Sniper is bad to mediocre against tanks.

Spy: Tanks do not have backs, and Spy has very low noncritical melee DPS. Spy is bad against tanks.

*By abusing the unusually high rate of fire and free crits offered by the Beggar's Bazooka and the Phlogistinator, respectively, both Soldier and Pyro can surpass even Scout as insanely powerful tank-killing machines.
BONUS! How It Works: Medic Bots
Uber Medics pop their charge their patient's health gets too low or, more importantly, when their own health drops below about 1/3. The need to be killed with large bursts of damage if you want to avoid Uber. Demo is the most popular class for this role.

Scout: Scout's meatshots easily do 100 damage without ugprades. Scout can drop a lightly damaged Uber Medic without popping the charge right from the start. It gets progressively easier with upgrades, which eventually allow Scout to drop them from full health. Crit-a-Cola or other boosts make the job easier. Unfortunately, the meatshot process is basically one at a time, so it's generally best to have a more effective Medic-killer on the team.

Soldier: Basically like Scout, except that rockets are a little easier to aim than a scatterguns. Buff Banner or other boosts help make things more reliable.

Pyro: Can drop Ubers with some reliability using Phlog or Backburner crits with enough damage upgrades.

Demoman: Can easily drop multiple Uber Medics from Wave 1 using sticky bombs with no upgrades or aiming required. The most popular class for dropping Ubers. A good rule of thumb is 3 stickies = guaranteed OHKO.

Heavy: Basically no.

Engie: Bascially no.

Medic: Basically no.

Sniper: Can drop Medics one by one from the getgo with headshots, but shooting a nearby robot and killing the Medic with Explosive Headshots is far more reliable. However, this requires 1050 credits worth of upgrades to do reliably.

Spy: Backstabs OHKO Uber Medics. Spy can kill 3 or 4 at a time before needing to redisguise.

Note on Giant Medics:
Any class that can drop Uber Medics can also drop Giant Quick-Fix Medics. Additionally, Heavy can drop them with some reliability if he's close enough and/or has crits.

108 Comments
Yugonostalgia 13 Jul, 2015 @ 5:28pm 
Does healing a spy really make the giant target you and not the spy? If so that's the best giant-killing combination in the game damn
Mr. Underscore  [author] 4 Jan, 2015 @ 9:19pm 
I feel like I already answered this question somewhere.

I ... suppose?
link and builder 4 Jan, 2015 @ 1:54pm 
Hey CAR_! Or, JHB, Ph. D. Didja hear? You can get Aussies from every operation, not just Two Cities, as of Smissmas 2014! Would you say that's a good thing?
Mr. Underscore  [author] 22 Dec, 2014 @ 4:24pm 
I never said it wasn't good, but it's not THE secondary. The most popular, sure, but not the best in every situation, and quite frankly, I prefer to just not use it, period, since it costs money to upgrade and weapon switches are annoying. And the fact that it's a support weapon and relying on support weapons will leave you mad cuz bad when your teammates suck.

I use Cola these days. Damage increase, negation of falloff... plus, it's used mainly during lulls so you don't have to worry about wasting time with weapon switches, and the default charge rate is generally adequate. Mad Milk is kind of pointless if you don't dump all your money into recharge.
tdogredman 22 Dec, 2014 @ 4:13pm 
mad milk isnt good for scout? that is THE secondary for scout -_-
♀Small☆Sky♂ 15 Dec, 2014 @ 1:59am 
there will be not expert to hard
must be a scout is cool
Illius 2 Dec, 2014 @ 8:07pm 
To be fair about airblast, while it isn't a godsent people take it to be it can be a good way to recover lost ground if they push too far (I know somebody who could reset the bomb 99% of the time with a single airblast), and it can help in missions like Mecha-Engine if they can do it right (Where it keeps forcing it back preventing Engi's from ever spawning).
Teutonic13 1 Dec, 2014 @ 1:35am 
Дебил
NeonLumine_ 30 Nov, 2014 @ 12:21pm 
You know when I looked at the title I didn't see 'Know Thy Class' is saw 'How Not Be Destroyed Scrub' Great post by the way.
Draedon 30 Nov, 2014 @ 8:53am 
I Luv MVM I want all badges. so far i have Oil Spill, Steel Trap, Mecha Engine, and Two Cities. All i need is Gear Grinder. Also, In MVM i luv Playing Medic,Soldier,Heavy,Peero (Pyro), Demoman, & Engie. Plus MVM everyone wants a TOD Ticket And Voucher & I like playing a public server called 30 Wave MVM.