nice

@PaToSsAuRo yeah, looking through changes rn some things are def broken, i'll fix it as soon as i can, most likely this week.

Hi there! Since today's update I'm having issues while this mod is active: 1. I cant' move my camp (char travel to destination but camp stays) 2. Adventurer's MAA started do pay gold maintenance. I've tried disabling this mod and things went back to normal in the same savegame.

@DeLaBedoyère yep, i dont think it should break anything in multiplayer

Fantastic mod, do you think it works without problems for multiplayer ?

@fisto the robo feel free to lift whatever, just link this mod somewhere on your mods page.

about the inverse thing would probably be interesting, but i would imagine not all of your troops would follow you. And also im not sure if the effect for getting landless title and camp is fired before or after u lose all the titles, because if it is after (and i assume it is) that means you already have no MAA and you have to save them beforehand somehow and that means you have to go through all possible ways of becoming landless and mess with them which sounds very annoying.

@Captain SSmolleTT: can i lift elements from this mod to add into a mod of mine?

also you added a system to make landless maas into special troops, but would the inverse be interesting: landed maas becoming special troops when leaving for adventure or losing your titles?

Search for secrets travelling is too nerfed I think. I found 1 secret in my whole lifetime traveling with the nerfed travel safety, and then finally getting the nerfed prestige for exposing it lol

Hey, great job creating this mod! I really enjoy it. Just wondering though, are these nerfs applied to AI landless adventurers as well? I hope not, cuz I find that AI adventurers are not really impressive in Vanilla game. Hope there is an extra game rule that only applies these nerfs to player

Gotcha. Well, it's more like a stipulation than a "feature" that it doesn't apply to mercenary work. That mod's sole purpose is to stop contracts from impoverishing landed characters, so imo your mod supersedes it with the game rule since that's 91% of the other mod. Anyways, I think it'd be a neat feature.
Also, meant to say "I *don't* think I saw anything about it", if that wasn't clear

@Angelic Burrito i didn't really "adapt" it, so i actually dont know what options it has. So no, they either paid alongside all other contracts or are not payed alongside all other contracts, but i could add that, i think.

The Adventurers Don't BANKRUPT The Realm mod you adapted into a game rule also has a feature where war contracts and calls to arms are paid directly from the AI characters, not conjured money. Does/can your mod also do that? I did think I saw anything about it in the change log.

Otherwise, love this.

@Murio l'ermite Im open to suggestions, but that's more of a general game problem, it's not like you know what to do with prestige on feudal rulers either.
For landless prestige is even weirder coz in my (admittedly, few) test runs i didnt get much prestige at all, except if i had a trait like arrogant, which made me have too much prestige all the time. Maybe the new lifestyle perks changed it or smth, but i felt more or less fine with how prestige was before 1.14

I've used this mod for over a month now and it's really great. In my last playthrough however I noticed how little we use prestige as a currency for adventuring. Maybe there's an option there to use it sometimes as a complement to gold. things like hiring people and marrying into noble families (after using the favor hook on the lord). It would make sense that prestige would factor in such decisions. Thoughts about this?

If possible men at arms regiments should have a tiny monthly provision maintenance, so theres an actual cost to maintaining a huge army in the adventurer late game (besides movement provision cost).

Wow, adventuring feels truly miserable and challenging with this mod, and all the flavor texts about how hard the adventuring life is makes perfect sense now. Love it.

Thanks for this mod. I hated how easy vanilla was for landless.

@Shaxx while i dont think having to savescum for something makes it op (theoretically you can finish every scheme in 50 days if you savescum hard enough), adding a short cooldown of maybe a month or three to it doesnt sound like a bad idea. Maybe i'll do it eventually.

Nice mod.

I notice that the option to steal the donation money from Churches as an adventurer is pretty unbalanced with just a bit of save-scumming (yea I know, I know), it has no cooldown (other than locking you out that visit but you can exit and come right back) and can be as much as 60 gold with a 50/50 win lose rate at times. Might be worth looking into.

Keep up the great work!

@TurboJ you wont believe it, but it is allowed already. But only for wandering characters. I think it's a fine restriction

Since we're discussing balance both ways, I think it would be good to allow not only soulmates and best friends, but also lovers and close family to be invited to camp.

More gamerules to the Gamerule God (may he resurrect Gamerule Gadget).

Well I've played normal CK3 and I've played AGOT and in both cases Mortician's Tools gives no gold at all. I'm not sure if it's another mod conflict but I've tried many load orders too to no avail.

@TurboJ wdym? Mortician's tools should still work and im pretty sure they do work.

Здравствуйте можете создать еще отдельный мод только с этими изменениями,
Контракты:
Золото за выполнение контракта было уменьшено как минимум в 2 раза
Золото за выполнение контракта сопровождения и прочих ему подобных уменьшено раз в 5
Контракты, требующие выполнения схемы, должны в среднем давать больше золота за выполнение.
А все остальное останется дефолтным.

..oh and mortician's tools are still not giving any gold.

Game rules very useful! Already using some to customize the experience.

A possible bug: the intrigue challenge to steal supplies at a castle/city gives very low chances. If my character has 2X the intrigue of the target, the challenge winning probability is less than 50%.

Great! I'm testing this in my setup. Reading your changelog I'm wondering if this is possible to add: make so that travel contracts can only be accepted in the place where they originate. (Doesn't make sense that you can pick up a travel contract from a few counties away if you're supposed to escort someone that is located in that county...)

Just added some cool gamerules. Check them out!

Thanks for clarifying that. BTW I just had that event again and it's actually not the target's gold value. Target had ~160 gold but the extra gold available was around 1800 (the optional value you get to try to rob after initial success). It's not always quite that much but it can get broken like that. But if it's difficult to fix then no worries; it does require a very skilled character to gain that much anyway (or one that has great stress tolerance).

@TurboJ yea im pretty sure it is just the target's gold value. The problem with that is - it's an event. Events require full file overwrite i think, which is a pain do maintain between updates. Pdx said they are aiming to release 1.13.2 next week, maybe after that. It probably has to be a lot riskier and have a cap of idk 2 years of income or something like that.

OK then... The 'Heist Treasury' criminal mission can yield you far too much gold. I don't know exactly how the maximum amount is determined - maybe it's the target's actual gold amount? Anyway, that maximum amount could perhaps be limited so you can't gain 2000 gold from a single mission.

And BTW thanks for continuing to develop this mod - your approach to fixing the issues is a good one and without this mod landless would be unplayable. So far ~20 hour with this mod and it makes things fun. I can still get ahead but it takes some effort now.

@CaptainSSmolleTT If it was my mod I would make it a percentage chance for every follower present - say, 50% because there is still a limited number of kingdoms typically, so that way not too OP. But it's better than random skill, because one fun strategy is to focus those capitals that give a certain skill suitable for your particular court. I think 50% should do fine?

@TruboJ what would be the better way to fix skill gain on visiting capitals - make it roll a random chance for each courtier, or just pick a random one (with maybe greater chance for ones with court positions or smth)

@arenam fair, i'll tweak some of those numbers a bit, they're indeed very expensive (i think they're legit cheaper for feudals?)

With regards to all the (justified) changes in income generation of the mod, I think recruiting followers should be balanced down as well ; right now, recruiting a single rando costs far too much with relation to the rest

Two more notions regarding balance: The vanilla scholarship perk "Inspiration is everywhere" is beyond broken. At one point I had 15 inspirations active at the same time. Those books can get very broken very quickly. Especially if your followers are very talented...which they ARE, as my next point is that the stewardship perk that gives every follower a skill point every time you visit any realm capital - in the long run this makes the followers super OP and they then produce broken books with the aforementioned inspirations. I think these are some of the most broken perks for adventurers.

Been playing with this mod for a few hours now and I'm loving it. Really makes adventurers viable to play. I wish there was a similar difficulty mod for the entire game :)

Regarding the overhaul mods, I'm actually playing right now the AGOT mod and this mod mostly seems to work. I'm not sure about the MAA provisions usage but that's not a huge deal anyway as I'm having a nice challenge with resources and overall difficulty anyway.

That being said, I'm not getting any money at all from 'mortician's tools'. I guess that's probably because of AGOT and not this mod alone?

Thanks for the mod, this finally allows me to enjoy the game for the first time in a long while!

It seems like PDX are finally starting to nerf adventurers. I highly doubt this mod will become irrelevant, but im glad to see paradox making steps to make vanilla playable.

@TurboJ it's sadly probably most likely not very compatible with total overhauls, as i had to overwrite all vanilla MAA files, and the provision costs are defined in the MAA files themselves because of some load order issue (at least that's what PDX commented on it), so anything touching vanilla MAAs will either not work or overwrite the mod changes, and everything that adds new MAAs will have their costs as defined in that mod.

Other than that - i think it should be more or less compatible with everything that doesnt touch adventurer-related files? But

Ah, sorry, figured this one out. Units are coming from Armies of Westeros mod.

I mean i did some testing with AGOT and this mod turned on of course.

I did some brief testing. 1 obvious item has caught my eye, MAA costs. So, some custom units seem to derive their stats from their "base". E.g. Palatini seem to properly inherit costs from Heavy Infantry, both have -30 movement cost per barony now. While other units seem to be too custom or maybe they have a custom movement cost and that value doesn't get adjusted if costs are adjusted via multiplier. Also, with the mod on I somehow had access to more units, but maybe there's some random factor i didn't account for, not really sure or maybe it's a bug and more units from later times are available when they shouldn't.

Also, I wanted to ask if this is compatible with full overhauls such as AGOT.

This is very nice! One thing that leads to being OP is knights. I found that with all the buffs you can get will make MAA almost redundant. I had my knights do 95% of my battle kills. 35 knights with 400% effectiveness buff? Something needs to be done to that. I suggest putting limits to number of knights and reducing buffs by camp buildings AND perks. With this addition this mod would pretty much fix the OPness issue. Thanks for listening.

@Hyomoto yea vanilla ones are overtuned af. Consider that most of the first day changes with this mod were absolutely not tested and i just reduced all income by 66ish% and that didnt even make them unplayable is crazy. Imagine if you did that to feudal rulers, how bad would count starts be?

At least my mod slows adventurers down enough so you can actually play them. I have a singleplayer campaign as cathar scholars that may soon reach 100 years played mark and im only 2/3 of the way there to fully upgrading the camp, have an army of barely a thousand and still somewhat struggle with food. I do not specifically go for strong perks and tried to convert rulers tho, that might be why, but still, i think it's neat.

But im still looking for ways to make it a bit more grounded without making adventurers unfun and tedious (which means they'll probably be stronger than counts still)

My comment probably reflects it poorly but I was just surprised that even with your mod I didn't feel like adventuring was hard, and was able to amass a decent amount of wealth and items before moving into being a ruler which surprised me since the mod aggressively reduces that income. I'm playing on average difficulty, and it felt fine.

So nope, I don't really have any ideas. I think it plays very well and doesn't go overboard on trying to fix adventurer play. It emphasizes your resources a bit more, feels a bit less OP, and I enjoy it as a more freedom-oriented interim gameplay style. I would love to see travel and adventuring keep getting expanded but your mod does what it says on the tin, so thanks.

@Hyomoto Glad you enjoyed my mod1 Im open to suggestions and/or ideas if you have any not-extremely-vague ones.

This isn't a complaint, but being an adventurer still feels rather OP in many regards: it's pretty crazy how overtuned it was at launch. As it is, I haven't done adventurer for decades to notice long-term effects, but I found myself making decisions about provisions, where to travel, etc... that I was pretty much ignoring before. It still feels like a strong interim experience to gather up troops, gold, connections and trinkets which are harder to do once landed, so I don't think it's gone overboard on tuning.