Giving feedback that in 2 and a half years from 1836 to 1839

Great Britain added Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Transvaal to their Power Bloc. I suspect that the additional influence allows them to build more relations.

I think adding to a power bloc particularly a sovereign empire should be quite hard especially for these midsized powers..

This mod looks great :) Subscribed now as I really like the game design philosophy

But I do agree game rules rather than companion mods makes sense but understand if its' too much work for the mod author.

Thanks!

For the record - I believe integrating companion mods as "game rules" settings instead might be more efficient - less mods to manage (with 20+ mods after a year break it's a headache to understand what's happening), more integrated with the game, much easier to manage the settings with save/load profiles.
Morgenrote is a mod that heavily uses "game rules" menu if you want to check out the implementation.

I have also released two optional companion mods for those who want bigger changes:

Vanilla Infamy Decay restores the normal rate of 5 infamy decay with an extra 25% from influence.

More Infamy Against Unrecognized increases infamy by 50% against unrecognized targets, resulting in Conquer State infamy costs closer to vanilla at the start of the game.

You can use either or both of these optional companion mods together with the Better Infamy, Treaties, and Claims mod to customize your experience.

I recommend using the official option mods because I can ensure they work together. I can continue to add options based on the feedback I get.

Based on feedback, I pushed an update that adjusts base infamy costs to be 10% higher. The update also reduces the per-state cap for infamy from population to be 14.8 million people instead of 16 million to balance this with the infamy per state maximums.

re: annexation cost
I'm using this mod with "Infamy Rework" that increases scaling cost while decreases base cost and got what i want. Siam's cost is around ~25 per their biggest land so if i want to paint i need to invest into painting or paint inefficiently.

Thanks for trying the mod!

It's not for everyone. It's designed to mostly equalize infamy per population. It's designed to make recognized and unrecognized countries have a large difference in infamy costs. It's designed to make Conquer State cheaper, but it remains more expensive for recognized targets. Increasing infamy against unrecognized targets is possible, but earlier feedback set the current level, to avoid unrecognized states at the 16 million cap going over 100 infamy at game start.

I understand that some may experience performance issues in their games, but most players will have no out-of-the-ordinary issues with game performance with just this mod.

Assuming it's not the peace pledge, I would need a more specific bug report about attacking countries. There shouldn't really be any issue with the mod with attacking countries otherwise, nor should the mod have any effect on expel diplomats.

Nice idea, but I'm having too many issues.

- Performance drops a lot and every few minutes the game completely stalls
- I can't attack some countries at all anymore
- I can directly annex whole countries for way too cheap
- Expel diplomats sometimes gets stuck forever

I think it's a good idea, and it's what I originally tried to do. Unfortunately, within the infamy section of code for Money Transfer, I could not access the country's income data. If I am wrong and someone else knows how, I would be glad to hear it.

I'm working on a 10% income sharing treaty article right now. Its original purpose was to give something meaningful for smaller player countries to bargain with, since I designed it to make a new transfer annually based on current income.

But I could also possibly hook it into the war goal system. Then it might be possible to ask for 10% of income infamy-free again. This could even exist alongside the existing Money Transfer - which I set at up to a 20% of income limit to make it less punishing while also making it more cost-effective infamy-wise - which can have infamy. It might be good if they were mutually exclusive?

Thanks for the kind words!

This mod looks really great. Thanks for your work!!
I have one question regarding 'no infamy up to 5000 per week', which doesn't scale based on the countries' size. What is your opinion on generating infamy based on % of tax income like no infamy up to 10% (war reparation before patch 1.9)?
Thank you again for making this interesting mod.

I pushed another update with these changes:

25% infamy for actions against low liberty desire subjects is back.

With less than 90 days on the binding period (about '12 weeks'), the AI is open to renegotiation. This makes it easier to keep treaties going if the AI would soon choose to withdraw.

The AI can break binding treaties. The AI will now withdraw from a treaty if it has an antagonistic, belligerent, or domineering attitude or a rivalry. But it won't do so if that would take infamy. For example, Austria or Prussia can now break the "Holy Alliance".

The 1.9.7 beta, when used with this mod, will make the AI withdraw from treaties outside of the binding period if their acceptance is negative.

@BeheadThoseWhoInsultKane
25% infamy for low liberty desire can come back.

In terms of historical realism, USA vs Mexico doesn't need more infamy. The border gore is ugly, though.

Map painting the 'unrecognized' is intended behavior for Vic 3.

The 1.9.7 beta fixes a bug where the AI won't withdraw outside the binding period. I can also work on more treaty-breaking while binding.

@Karax
Toggles will be introduced at some point.

Renegotiation of an existing treaty with the AI during the entire binding period is a silly feature and introduces a lot of ways for the AI to misjudge the value of the renegotiated treaty.

There has been some useful specific feedback about treaties. For example I got a comment that small countries should be able to get investment rights. That is something that I will work on.

Disabling infamy from diplo-annexing does not fit the era the game is in.
Victorian era expansion is mostly dominated by puppets and protectorates, with some concessions here and there. But most concessions are going to puppets.
This also goes into previous example of USA vs Mexico recognized land cheap annexations. At the era game is in - this is very major international crisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectorate see extensive lists here for reference

Hi!

I think current infamy is very low. In my latest run USA gobbled up half the mexico (up to Yucatan) along with their cores in just 2 wars and stayed at infamous status.
I feel this should not be possible without at least going into 50+ range from zero. Painting the map is easy even with constant conquests (like staying in the war year by year).
The influence bonus is very strong in conjunction with Colonial Offices and other infamy reductions, which are mandatory for painting the map and colonizing anyway.

Maybe allowing adjusting infamy cost multipliers via game settings is the way to satisfy the many contradictions of the system?

On the treaties: Yeah i think current adjustments in the treaty system need more improvements. AI will rarely break treaties even if at cold relationship level.

The penalty for threat is in binding period is a very bad.
1. penalty continuous after binding time ends
2. It disallow to add more thing which would be allowed and agreed in new pact. IMO it should only prevent from removing things, but not to extend it.

Because of that it would be much better to have that as configurable options. Similar to other as well, as part of them have astronomical numbers in the end, making them disabled content. Pity.

@icon41gimp just tested this, that's just describing vanilla Vic 3 behavior, it's not related to this mod

If I do Liberate Subject x2 on Scheswig and Holstein, and Protectorate Denmark I end up with Denmark as a subject still with 2x personal unions to S/H?

Is this working incorrectly?

I have updated the Chinese localization with the many improvements from the translation 牛奶大魔王 posted. I have also made a few adjustments to the Chinese localization to be more accurate about the mod's mechanics or to have phrasing that is closer to what is intended. The mod itself has all the necessary translation files. I appreciate the work 牛奶大魔王 has done here and have added a translator credit to the description. I think that the English and Chinese localizations are pretty good now. I would welcome any help to improve them further or with other languages.

I will review any suggestions for improved translation and incorporate them into the mod, which I can keep up to date with the latest version of the mod including all the strings that need to be localized, while ensuring that they match my intention as the author.

Greetings! What a great mod, I saw it had Chinese loc but some read weird, so I did a better chinese translated
Would u include a line in description?

Here is my Chinese localization.
https://steamproxy-script.pipiskins.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2880069248

anyone having a penalty for isolationism for investment treaty even though both coutry already on free trade???

I pushed an update just now that fixes the renegotiation bug where it always showed the "binding period" penalty. The AI now knows whether a treaty is still binding and will be eager to receive offers for new terms outside of the binding period.

As another note: opening countires with diplomacy should be viable.
In vanilla i should talk korea into mercantilism by having good relations and giving them something.
Here it is just flat -2k, very sad, dont want to wipe floor with koreans and ruin our relations.

Seems so, I tried to disable mod and wait for a few years.
China canceled one treaty (about investment rights), but still kept giving me money.
Prussia too kept to its defensive pact it doesn't like. Shame they left such a bug and went on vacation, I guess no another hotfix in near future.

@624932690
I've been seeing reports that the failure of the AI to withdraw from treaties outside of the binding period is currently just a patch 1.9.6 thing. They were doing it when I tested the mod on 1.9.5.

The ability to renegotiate outside of the binding period is the top issue I'm working on.

@Amoeba
Finland and Norway have no change, and the colonies keep the other benefits such as tech spread and interest rate that recognized countries have. There is just a lower infamy cost for war goals against them while the colonies are not independent. They are still playable.

ai just creates defensive pacts with half the world and makes it pretty hard to achieve anything

I don't know which mod is causing this, but in my run seems AI doesn't know when/whether to withdraw from treaty, also renegotiaton always shows "binding period" penalty..

>Colonies and chartered companies count as unrecognized for infamy until they gain independence.

Great mod, but this change makes playing as a starting subject unplayable. Nations like Canada, Finland, Norway, DEI, Raj.

Thank you for the good work you do!

@hello_moto2901
I think you're right. I just tested getting investment rights as a tiny country. There's currently not enough that Bahrain can offer in 1836, and a Bahrain without foreign investments at least somewhere else isn't great. I will make some adjustments to give small countries more possibilities on the treaty screen, especially for investment rights.

The logic for 'Claim Natural Borders' can be adjusted. Maybe it should be directional in cases where one side of the split state has a large majority of the population. That would let Spain claim Gibraltar but not vice versa (without needing a special case for the state region).

also its impossible to get investment rights as small nations and other things

this mod causes britain to constantly get all out south spain because its a split state

My money transfer is separate article.
Also, im looking from time to time at defence pact between prussia and austria, most of times prussia dont like it.

Sure thing! I'm having a great time working on this mod.

There is a specific issue that is also in the base game where a treaty port article disables withdrawing from a treaty. This is commonly seen by enforcing treaty port together with something like Money Transfer and getting them eternally or until Qing becomes recognized and can withdraw from treaty ports. I'm assuming that it's good not to go to war every 5 years to keep a treaty port active, so I'd like to fix this somehow (if I can figure out how) so only the treaty port stays active, not the rest of the treaty, maybe by making a new treaty when the binding period expires and the AI wants to withdraw.

Ah yes, i have treaty with china giving me 40k war reps, they should cance it because binding no more

@had @srand42
Same deal with the bing period being expired but the AI still almost never cancel treaties on their own. In my game, it takes supporting opposite sides of a diplomatic play for them to cancel defensive alliance, while supporting independence never got cancelled even when being loyal or the suzerain changed through transfer subject. Workaround currently is to release subject instead of transfer subject for those with support independence treaties.

Anyway, thank you for this great mod and also being responsive to the community.

Well, it is not binding anymore, but seems it went from unfavorable to favorable.
Seems like irl war between prussia and austria happaned in 1866, but in vanilla prussia usually go after austria around ~1850. So maybe it is all fine.

I previously changed the AI so it basically never breaks a binding treaty, on the basis that the AI was taking needless infamy for doing so. I agree that it should be changed, if possible, so that it's smarter about breaking binding treaties. I would like to figure out how to do that.

When it's outside of the binding period, the mod makes the AI more likely to break unfavorable treaties. But it might not do so if it still thinks the treaty should have positive acceptance (or if there is some bug that I don't know about).

@ADude
Agreed, at a minimum I think it should be fine and cause no issues with taking advantage of the AI to renegotiate outside of the binding period. I would like to figure out how to enable that specifically. Changes like this should be simple, but it's hard to figure out because the script design makes assumptions about what information needs to be available, and it's mostly undocumented. I will change it when I can.

Seems like prussia cant leave defence pact with austria and cant do unification stuff

yet another mod added to the "cannot play without" list

here's to hoping the renegotiation bug is fixed soon!

@had
I completely agree about liberate country being an issue for both realism and game balance, and it's something I would like to look into further for this mod.

Fixing the AI weights for existing goals like regime change is out of scope for this mod, to increase compatibility with other mods, but I do have an interest in developing my own AI mods in the future, which would be compatible with this mod and could look into this.

@NotokoBoomer
I will review the maneuver cost, but I think it's basically okay if maneuvers are sometimes a limit on how many states can be taken in one war.

I also think it's okay for trade privileges and company monopoly to have infamy (even if Investment Rights does not) and for that infamy to scale with the target because of the implication. These war goals are just exploitation of the target. But the trade privileges infamy should have a reasonable cost compared to treaty port, as the latter is even more exploitative. I will look at that.

I will look into getting the AI to break treaties during the binding period when it is beneficial for them to do so.

I agree that there is an issue with not being able to renegotiate treaties with the AI. I will look into fixing this while limiting exploitation of the feature.

@Kosi thanks! it could be easier to maintain one mod and to add a sort of cheat code game rule for the treaty articles that some players would like to be easier.

The treaty adjustments are balanced around giving the player more positive acceptance for giving away valuable things, not just making it harder to get things. If the player has valuable consideration to give to the AI, and if not asking for something like taking the core states of the AI empire, the treaty articles are not just impossible. But it is intended for there to be situations where they are contextually not possible in that moment, such as the player not having a ton to give and trying to secure a law commitment article from a country that doesn't have the law the player wants to enact.

is it possible to make a mod without the treaty adjustments? I kinda like the no infamy bonuses and influence things. But making it impossible to use most of the new treaty items is kind of a no-go for me.

Good mod either way! <3

One more note: change regime wargoal heavily devalues the AI. It does nothing and yet AI loves it gains a lot of infamy in return. I think it should have zero AI weight, because why would anyone use it? In my vanilla game I saw England attacking China and Japan using change regime only and in my current game I asked Austria to help against the Ottomans with it. I gained plenty of war meat from them, while Austria ended up with a ton of infamy and little motivation to expand while they burn it.

Also, releasing new countries seems too powerful. You can cripple England, France, Russia, or Austria with a single trick. It might be more balanced if the cost depended on the potential size of the released country eg bigger nations would require more points (like 100+ point for Occitania). Perhaps a separatist movement should be required as well, although at the moment those movements seem dead. I think no one in France would accept the liberation of Occitania (including French in Occitania itself) unless there were major internal problems.

Yes, AI and investment rights obsession happens in Vanilla too.

Another thing I noticed is that freeing a subject always costs 20 diplomatic points, while transferring a subject is weighted by the subject’s own value. I think It would make more sense to calculate the diplomatic cost of freeing a subject the same way as transferring, but with a 0.5 modifier (since you’re not taking it for yourself, after all).

The same applies to releasing countries: a flat cost is kind of boring, and it feels odd that releasing Bulgaria costs the same as releasing Cyprus.

4. While I understand making treaties basically not allowed to be renegotiated to not allow exploitation of AI, this cause some other issues such as cancelling a treaty reset a country’s attitude, for instance I have a Defensive treaty and trade privilege exchange with the US, but I want to withdraw the trade privilege. By the withdrawal of the entire treaty, their altitude got set to cautious instead of cooperative, making the defensive alliance non renewable. While I am not surre about their relationship, not being allow to renegotiate treaties might have caused the ai not willing to cancel treaties?

Anyway, this is a wonderful mod still, thank you for creating this mod.

Also, i am not sure this is a vanilla issue or cuz the infamy cost of investment rights is zero, but the ai is weighting investment rights in diplomatic play way too favourably. Maybe a low infamy (maybe 5?) cost for investment rights instead of zero is more balanced?


3. I have noticed the ai is very unwilling to cancel treaties on their own. For example in my game the Russians becomes Belligerent for wanting to conquer Suez, however they didn’t cancel my Defence Treaty with me and even still willing to be called as Ally in wars. The other treaties I notice is Support Independence. I transferred British Senegal to being my subject in a war, but despite them being loyal with low liberty desire and their support independence treaty now have negative acceptance, they never cancel the treaty and their liberty desire become unmanageable.
(To be cont.)

Hello, this is a wonderful mod that makes playing a major power much more enjoyable and I also notice the major powers fight each other more often for colonial holdings without taking each others homelands. However, there is a few things I noticed that perhaps can be improved upon (I was on 1.9.6 beta and now official 1.9.6 while using this mod btw):

1. The diplomatic manoeuvre cost is probably vanilla? This means while the infamy cost of taking colonies is manageable, it would be difficult to take a few small colonial holdings in the same war.

2. While the investment right cost no infamy, the other economic treaties such as trade privilege and company monopoly still cost vanilla amount of infamy, which makes them extremely unfavourable to choose.
(to be cont.)